Literacy Instruction & Advocacy with Timmy Bauer (Ep 49)

March 08, 2022/ By

Timmy is the host of the Literacy Advocate Podcast. He loves studying what makes some picture books work for kids and others not. He's the author of Billy the Dragon and 7 other picture books and is currently fascinated by the debate between structured literacy and balanced literacy education. Follow Timmy on Twitter at @Timmy_Bauer and visit his website

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Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Welcome to the Deeper Learning with WeVideo Podcast. I am Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad. And on today's episode, we have Timmy Bauer. Timmy is the host of The Literacy Advocate Podcast. He loves studying what makes some picture books work for kids, and other's not. He's the author of Billy the Dragon and seven other picture books, and is currently fascinated by the debate between structured literacy and balanced literacy and education. I hope you enjoy the episode.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Hey Timmy, thanks so much for being on the show.

Timmy Bauer: Nathan, thanks for having me.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: It's super cool to have a fellow podcaster, but I hate to even lump you in the same group as me, because you're so much more of a veteran and seasoned podcaster than I am. So I'm a little bit intimidated to have you on the show, just because of how experienced you are.

Timmy Bauer: I tell you what, I know exactly what it feels like to interview somebody and have that feeling. First of all, there is no reason to... I was nervous getting on this one with you because of the same reason. I was like, "Oh, okay. The shoe's on the other foot now. I better bring the content." And truth be told, I don't know what we're going to talk about too much, so there's no reason to be intimidated by me, long story short.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: I love that. Well, in our pre-interview, our pre-podcasting, I've had a lot of fun already and you're just such a fun personality and such energetic personality and someone that I feel comfortable with and I know that your guests do. And speaking of our listeners right now, I know would love to hear more about your podcast and The Literacy Advocate is kind of where I first found you. So, let's start there if you're cool with that.

Timmy Bauer: Sure.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Tell us about how you got started with this podcast, and also, it's super cool that you write kids books and kind of how that connects to your podcasts as well.

Timmy Bauer: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Okay. So it started, the podcast started as the Books for Kids podcast and that was back in 2017, I think. I'm a kid's book author, and I've always known that I wanted to be a successful kid's book author, and I still don't know what that means to be a successful kid's book author, but I was like, okay, well, podcasting is really starting to become a thing, and it's really accessible. It's about as accessible as having a blog. So I was like, okay, I'm going to start a podcast now, what should I call it? And I'm looking at the podcasts that are out there and there's Matthew Winner's podcast, which is The Children's Book podcast. And I was like, okay, so there's already a podcast that's about children's books. Well, there's no reason why they can't be two.

Timmy Bauer: So mine's going to be called the Books for Kids podcast, and I'm just going to interview kid's book authors and illustrators, and try to steal their powers, and talk about kid's books that give me imposter syndrome, and just try to become an expert that way. And so, that's how it started. And the more I had conversations on that show, the more I started to realize that my favorite people to talk to were teachers. And so, I'd be having these conversations with teachers where I'm asking them about their favorite kid's books and the topics always turned towards literacy instruction because of course it would, they're teachers.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Right.

Timmy Bauer: And then on top of that, as I'm getting to know these teachers, and we're just jamming on literacy instruction and their favorite kid's books and what they like and all that kind of stuff, I'm building relationships with teachers. And as a kid's book author, that's really awesome because I want to read my books to their kids. And I was like, I just quickly realized, "Oh, wait a second." I called it the Books for Kids podcast because I was trying to plant a flag in the ground and be like, "Me too, me too, Matthew Winner." I love Matthew Winner, by the way, I've had him on my podcast.

Timmy Bauer: And I was just like, I'm going to drop the pretense and I'm going to make this podcast about building relationships with teachers and picking their brain about literacy education and just go all in on that. So I changed the name to The Literacy Advocate. That was right around the time that I had our mutual friend on, Ken Kunz and so I've just been doing a ton of episodes with the show being called The Literacy Advocate. And what's been crazy about it is I studied to be a teacher. I studied to be an English teacher when I was in college, dropped out almost before getting my degree, and I can tell you that everything I have learned about literacy education has come from doing this podcast. None of it has come from college.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Interesting. I'm curious, I learned about this in our pre-interview that you changed your mind, right up until the point where you graduated. What was the moment where you realized you wanted to change directions? Was there an event that caused it? Or was it kind of a buildup over time, like a straw that broke the camel's back situation? How did that come about?

Timmy Bauer: Yeah, let's see. I'm trying to think back to that time, and what I was thinking and what I was feeling. I think the biggest thing was I legitimately have known since I was a kid that I wanted to be a kids' book author. I remember being 10 years old and telling everybody that when I grow up, I'm going to be a professional cartoonist and get paid to make cartoons. And then when I was 17... So I didn't know what form that would take. For a while I was like, "I want to work in animation." And then I was like, "No, I want to basically do Calvin and Hobbes style, strip comic stuff." And then, when I was 17, I had a little brother... I still have a little brother, he's almost 17 now, but he was four years old, and I started making a kid's book just to make him laugh.

Timmy Bauer: And it was called Billy the Dragon. It's my first kid's book. And so, every night I would just try to make sure that before it was nighttime, before it was time to read to him before he goes to bed, I would have made a little bit more of this book. And my goal every time was just to make him laugh or gross him out or scare him or cause some kind of reaction in him. And it developed my mindset around kids' books, which is basically learning from reading to a kid, what kids actually want read to them. And as a kid's book author, that matters a lot and it's really that they want books that cause reactions in them. So I'm literally trying on every page of my book to cause some kind of a reaction in my little brother, and that's what produced my first kid's book, Billy the Dragon.

Timmy Bauer: Well, I was 17 when that happened. I didn't legitimately think that I could turn that into a career until I was in college. And just looking ahead at my life going, "Man, do I really want to spend the next 20, 30, 40 years in education and not really, really go after this thing that I've known that I wanted to do?" And the more I studied education, the more I realized, I'm attracted to aspects of this. I'm attracted to literacy education. I'm attracted to the idea of teaching and inspiring kids to be readers. But so much of this to me feels like I would be stuck doing not the main thing that I really want to do with my life. And so, to my whole family's disappointment, I dropped out of college, went to art school, finished Billy the Dragon for real, published it, and started knocking on elementary school doors.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: I think it's amazing that you were able to kind of tap into your own interests and intrinsic motivations and still be able to make an impact in education at the same time. I think it's fantastic that you were able to go through kind of the traditional English teacher route. And so, you get what teachers... You get the process of planning a lesson, choosing an anchor text, or a piece of text to read, and then for students to engage with. So you understand all the processes, but then now you're pursuing what your greatest passion was. And so, it's almost like you have kind of the best of both worlds now because what you do [crosstalk 00:08:37]. Yeah.

Timmy Bauer: What's so funny about that, Nathan, is that I don't know that that's true. What I feel like is more true, is that I have the experience of having gotten a bachelor's degree that should have prepared me for education. And so, when I talk to people and when I talk to other teachers and I talk about how much you don't get in college, I was like, "Yeah, college didn't prepare me at all to be a teacher based on these conversations, based on like what we're talking about teachers need to know and thoroughly understand." And the teachers I'm talking to are like, "Yep, that's right." You learn everything after college, or at least after your bachelor's degree.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah. I mean, nothing, I don't think any professor would say that going through classes is any comparison to the experiential learning that you get by actually having your own classroom and designing learning experiences. And so, hopefully we have some higher ed persons on here today thinking about how that can impact higher ed and the traditional teaching programs.

Timmy Bauer: And this might not be true now. I'm talking about what college was like for me back in 2010.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah. It's so long ago.

Timmy Bauer: Yeah. Sorry I interrupted you. Where were you headed?

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: I know, I know. Well, so in your bio, actually, I'm thinking about you had something interesting about the argument of whole language versus balanced literacy. I'm not sure exactly how you framed it, but obviously any literacy teacher knows there's two kind of main... And not that it should be binary, but it's almost been either in this camp or you're in this camp, and you can't have both. But just because you brought it up and you put it in your bio, I'm interested kind of in where you are. I guess, first off for the audience, tell us kind of in your own words, what the kind of the two opposing perspectives are?

Timmy Bauer: Sure.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: And then kind of what your thoughts are on both or what your position is now.

Timmy Bauer: Yeah, sure. So I'll start by saying that almost everything that I know about these topics has come from interviewing people on The Literacy Advocate. So, these are not... I'm not going to be able to give the scientific definitions. My definitions are going to be way more experiential from what it's felt like as I've interviewed people that are super pro balanced literacy and other people that are super pro structured literacy. The really fun thing is I went into the process of making this podcast without knowing it, being very pro balanced literacy. And I have shifted from doing the podcast. The podcast has been what's shifted my mentality on this. So, I wanted to say this earlier, and I forgot to say it, but for anybody who's interested, the premise of the show is I ask literacy experts what is a commonly held belief in literacy education that you passionately disagree with?

Timmy Bauer: That's basically the premise of every episode and somebody gives me a different answer. And so often the answers revolve around the topic of balanced literacy versus structured literacy. To the best of my understanding, balanced literacy is when you try to teach reading with a high emphasis on getting kids to love to read in the hopes that by loving to read that will propel them to do the work of learning how to read. And structured literacy kind of takes the opposite approach and is like, "No, no, no. You're not going to learn how to do something that you're not..." Sorry. "You're not going to love to do something that you're not competent at." The focus of education needs to be getting kids to be extremely competent readers and then they will love to read. Now, that's probably a bastardization of the actual definitions, but to the best of my understanding from talking to a bunch of people, that's pretty much how it's felt.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah. And so, do you think it's helpful to even have this conversation in education? Like teachers who are teaching literacy-

Timmy Bauer: Yes.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Okay. And then, why?

Timmy Bauer: Well, because I think that there are a lot of stakes. There's a lot at stake. If you have a kid and you're trying so hard to get them to love to read, but their key problem is that they don't understand phonics, that needs to be the thing that you're keying in on as the problem. And the thing is, we know that that's the problem for almost everybody that's learning how to read. They have to learn the brute process. They have to truly learn phonics, and it's not a natural thing to learn phonics. It doesn't happen naturally. And so, if the focus is being so heavily placed on getting a kid who doesn't understand phonics to love to read, to borrow from somebody that I've had on the podcast named Eric Kalenze, you're essentially teaching reading appreciation instead of reading. And I did not believe this when I started the podcast.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Well, it speaks to your ability to have a diverse range of voices on your podcast and being able to... You're doing your own meta analysis, literature review, podcast edition, being able to have experts on your show to kind of share their perspectives. And obviously, I mean, I would think that your goal as a kid's book author is to think about how are classrooms using your books in the classroom. So if you're okay, kind of pivoting there now, what would you say? I mean, what is your hope for teachers using your books in the classroom? Obviously you want to inspire young readers everywhere, you want to spark their imaginations, and so forth. But yeah, I'd love to hear more about kind of what your thoughts are about how you see your creations manifesting in the classroom.

Timmy Bauer: Man. That's such a great... I appreciate you asking that question. You're letting me be super selfish now, but before I answer that question, for anybody that I completely turned off, who's a proponent of balanced literacy. My co-host Shalanda, to the best of my understanding, she's pretty pro balanced literacy. So, we've got diversity of thought even among the two of us as hosts. And she honestly, she's the literacy expert. So, at some point I'm going to have a sit down conversation with her and basically just be like, "Hey, Shalanda, tell me how I'm wrong. Tell me how I'm thinking about this wrong." Which is basically what I do with everybody that I have on the podcast. So anyways, just in case I offended somebody.

Timmy Bauer: And then the other thing that's kind of crazy about this is that part of the reason I was ideologically, so similar with proponents of balanced literacy going into starting the podcast is because at the end of the day, if I get to the higher order thing... So as a kid's book author, my main motivation, this is going to sound so selfish. My main motivation is that I love to make kid's books. I just love it. It's like a sandbox that I love to play in. And so, my primary motivation, which is just so self-centered, is that this is a sandbox that I like to play in. So I just want to do everything I can to get to play in the sandbox for a living. It's so bad, but that's number one for me, and I don't know how to make that not number one for me.

Timmy Bauer: But there is a very, very strong number two for me, and that is, I want to make the kind of kid's books that I wished I could find when I was a kid. And then when I finally was able to find some kid's books that are like the ones that I make, it skyrocketed my love of reading, and this circling way back around here, we are back at balanced literacy. I'm talking about love of reading. Sure enough, love of reading propelled me to be a reader, which now it sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. But I want my kid's books to do that. I want my kid's books to be so interesting to a kid. And the kid that I'm talking about is really just myself as a kid. That it does what people like Brian Jock and the creator of the Magic Tree House did for me, which is make me want to read more.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: I think it's such a powerful, yet simple purpose. And I think sometimes we over-complicate those kind of lifelong missions. And when people ask, what is your mission education or what is your why, or your purpose?" And yours is such a powerful yet simple one to spark students everywhere, kid's everywhere, to love to read. And I think that's extremely powerful and there's lots of work then that can be done to help drive that mission.

Timmy Bauer: Yeah. And this has been, I think... So this was my conversation with Eric. I was like, "Eric, if I look at my own..." Eric's the person that really started me thinking about structured literacy in a much more positive light. I was like, "Eric, if I look at my own story, I started to love to read when I finally found books that I really, really liked. And I am so much more of a reader today than I ever would have been if I had not found those books." And he was like, "Yes, there needs to be people that are doing that kind of work. But at the same time, the teachers that are in the classroom have to teach kids actually how to read."

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on... Well, actually let's just backup for a second. Can you define what a kid's book actually is? I mean, so you have graphic novels, is it literally just illustrations mixed that are leveled for elementary aged kids? Can you-

Timmy Bauer: Yeah, that's a great question.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah, I was about to kind of dive in deep and then I thought maybe that might be helpful just to kind of share kind of overall, what that looks like?

Timmy Bauer: For sure. Most of the time when I say kid's book, what I'm talking about is your typical 32-ish page picture book, that is for the most part, a kindergarten to second grade audience. And I mostly write with second graders in mind, but I try to write with everybody from kindergarten to third grade in mind when I write. And the parents in mind, when I write.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Got it.

Timmy Bauer: The next version of kids books that I'm super into and hope to make one day would be young, middle grade, where there's a picture either on every page or every three pages. Think like Ricky Ricotta or Baby Mouse or the Lunch Lady Series.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: I love it. And I'm thinking right now, to me about this purpose of yours and getting students interested in reading. I think it is one of the most foundational skills that is a part of every grade level and content area. But we also know that there's so much cognitive thinking, there's this high level thinking, there's so much kind of brain power that can be a part of reading. And I'm just curious, what do you see are kind of the next steps in literacy? Because obviously there are still challenges and there are still large gaps in getting students to read with proficiency and be skilled readers. And we're always, forever, I feel like education has been working on helping to prepare students to be more skilled readers. In your opinion, and based on kind of your anecdotal evidence, of having all these conversations with teachers and obviously writing kid's books, do you have any thoughts of kind of a direction that schools and classrooms should go in? Or any maybe thoughts about taking it to the next level?

Timmy Bauer: I have. Yeah, I have so many thoughts. The first thought that came to mind when you were saying that, is from my experience as a kid's book author, I think there's such a huge opportunity for kid's book authors, because there are so many kinds of books I think that should exist, that currently don't. So for example, there needs to be more books that are written at say a third grade level, in terms of lexile level, of what a kid is capable of reading and comprehending, while the topic is something that fifth graders are thinking about. So, that's just one example. From the perspective of a kid's book author, more books should be created like that, because there are so many fifth graders that are reading at a third grade level, but don't want to in their minds be humiliated. And so, it'd be awesome for more books like that to exist. I've forgot all the other stuff I was thinking about, because that's the first place my brain went. Can you remind me what the question was?

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah, no, this is fantastic. No, we were thinking out loud about where do we go next with just ensuring that, getting more and more students interested in reading and being skilled readers?

Timmy Bauer: [crosstalk 00:22:56] Yeah, I think the main way that you get kids being interested in reading is one, from the perspective of the teacher. I think you have to really teach the skill. I think you really have to get kids extremely competent at the skill of reading. And then from the perspective of books selection, and feeding them material, you've got to find material that is of high interest to them.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah. I mean, I think this goes back to kind of the... Sorry to bring it back, but the balanced literacy approach. But Jay McTighe and Grant Wiggins did a lot of work around big ideas, enduring understandings, one of the things that Jay writes about that really resonate is that instead of saying, "Oh, today we're going to read a Hamlet," instead say, "We are going to undertake a study in indecision, and we're going to look through the lens of Hamlet." And so, we start with this big idea that-

Timmy Bauer: That's good.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah. Or that we're going to read about the sinking of the Titanic, but instead you're framing it around, let's look at the human condition of arrogance and then look at it as some examples of the Titanic. And there's so many different concepts that you can really dive into from that point.

Timmy Bauer: Makes sense.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah, I think if we start from this kind of bigger picture, you can have this enduring understanding, which makes a lot of sense, because we're able to make lots of different connections, and the text becomes definitely a centerpiece of all of these. I think of like a concept map and the text is definitely one of the middle bubbles, but have all these other kind of side reflective bubbles that start to emerge as we read the text but then start to talk about it. I mean, that's the social learning part too. And I imagine that when readers and kids read your book, I think the hope is, what does it make the readers think about? How do they reflect about their own life? And even if it's-

Timmy Bauer: [crosstalk 00:25:22] I have a very strong opinion about that. I'm sorry.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Good. Okay, good. Jump in, please. This is the podcast interviewing you, so by all means.

Timmy Bauer: Okay. So this is my opinion about that. And I thought for a while that this was an unpopular opinion until I attended a kid's book making session put on by, oh, I'm going to forget his name right now. It's the author of One Word From Sophia, and I'm totally blanking on his name, but he said something opening up the session with, "The most sure-fire way that I know a kid's book is going to fail is when the adult that wrote it, wrote with the perspective of there is a concept I want to teach a kid, and then they went and wrote the book." And they did not go, "Okay, there's an idea that I'd like kids to think about, but now I'm going to set my agenda aside, I'm going to thoroughly put myself in the world and mindset of that age group, and I'm just going to write for that age group." In that age group's world.

Timmy Bauer: And it's kind of a hard concept to fully explain, but that was a really good... When he said that, I was like, "Yes," that is something that I've been trying to articulate. And I just look at most people that try to make kids books and their agenda is to teach. And I just like, when was the last time that you read a fiction book that was a thinly, veiled sermon and was like, "Yes, this book is so good." And yet we try to force that on kids all the time. And so, I can't remember what you said that sparked this thought, but it's the idea that, there's so much to inspire kids about or to get them to think about. And it's like, yes, that is true.

Timmy Bauer: But for the most part, if you go into making a kid's book with that agenda, you're going to make a book that absolutely sucks, and the kid's going to toss it aside. And so, instead, what you've got to do is go, "Okay, there's an idea that I want kids to think about. Now, I'm going to thoroughly put myself in the mindset of a seven-year-old. What are seven year olds afraid of? When a seven year old wakes up, what are they nervous about today? What are they hoping for? What are the most exciting things for a seven-year-old? What are the most frustrating things for a seven-year-old? And what are the funniest things to a seven-year-old?" And you really think about that. And then what you get instead is instead of making a kid's book where it's like, "And Timmy selfishly didn't realize that his sister Sarah just wanted to play toys with him too."

Timmy Bauer: You don't get pages like that rubbish. You get pages where Timmy is going, "Ah, this is so annoying. Why do you have to... Oh my godzilla sister with her clod, hopper feet came and destroyed all my toys. Oh, I'm never going to be able to fix this." You get that kind of stuff. And then you can just show that in the story, he figures out through his frustration, at the end, his sister is just trying to play with him. But don't have pages where you would say what you want to say to that kid.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah. Which leads me to this point. How do we as educators, we instill the love of reading, but not also make it not fun? I mean, so, I think it's really important as educators that we teach our kids to be reflective as they read and think about where they would maybe fit in the story or how they would react differently or how they wished that the ending may have been different, and so forth. But I think sometimes we ask students to read something and then we put so much structure around it. We make them fill out a reading log or do a worksheet or a test on the book, and it takes the fun out of it. But at the same time, we would to make sure that students are being reflective readers and they're really thinking about the context and the setting and the characters. And so, I'm curious about how you see kind of that balance playing out?

Timmy Bauer: My answer is so simplistic. It's conversation.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah.

Timmy Bauer: I think my number one answer to that question would be conversation. Conversation is the ultimate way to get kids to be thinking about something that they just read, forming their own ideas, and conveying that they understood the text that they just read. And that's so much better than a reading log. I've asked teachers that talk about reading logs on the podcast, what happens to the reading logs? Who's doing stuff with those reading logs? And the answer is, "Nobody. Nobody's doing anything with the reading logs. We're just making kids do them because we're trying to get them to show that they're doing the thing that we're telling them to do." But it's for me, personally, a much more enjoyable way to show that I'm reading something, is to have a conversation with somebody about it. And I think kids are the same way.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah. I agree. And that answer really resonates with me too. And I have to just because it's so embedded in my world, I have to put a plug in for doing a video book talk or a book trailer. And I've seen kids have a lot of fun with, after they've read a book, they can jump into WeVideo and create a book trailer to make it really exciting and try to get their other friends to read the book. And it's honestly a fun, creative way to kind of reflect on what was just read. [crosstalk 00:31:13] Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you there, Timmy.

Timmy Bauer: Oh, no. I was interrupting you to tell you that I love that so much.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Oh good. Yeah. Well, I mean, it really falls in line with having conversations about it, and I think it's an organic natural way. And then it also let's kids get in the driver's seat because they get to talk about their favorite parts and then they get to visual... To the best of their ability or in their own creativity, they get to kind of show you the lens through which they read the story, which is again, you're putting kids into the driver's seat.

Timmy Bauer: Yeah. Yeah. And I would say also podcasting, and I mean, I teach this at different sessions and stuff, but I'm not making money off of this. So this is a plug for something that I don't actually sell, but it's an idea which is, I think classrooms should have podcasts. It's really easy to make a podcast. And it's really easy to make your kids hosts of your podcast. It could be a totally internal thing. What a podcast really is, is just a recorded conversation. And so, you can do that so easily. This is a one really easy way to do it is to just use the voice memos app on your phone, and you can just record conversations.

Timmy Bauer: You can have prompts where you just are saying, "What did you think about this part of the story?" Or, "What was a moment in the story where a character made a decision that you don't think you would have made?" That kind of stuff. And you're going to have rich conversation and the vehicle that makes it sort of a thing, is the fact that you're recording it to be a podcast. And there's so many extra skills that are, in my opinion, so valuable to the world that kids are growing up into around getting comfortable communicating on a recording.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Yeah. And I think the more we give kids opportunities to talk about and reflect about something they just read, the more it opens up the world of reading and they're able to... So the next book they pick up and start reading, it's going to have, they're going to make more and more connections because they can exercise that part of their brain.

Timmy Bauer: Yep. I love it. We're on the same page there.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: So yeah, this is so good, Timmy. We're going to have to do a part two, part three, part four or something here before long, because there's so many more questions I now have, but I know that we are having to roll out of here. So before we go, I would love for you to kind of share how the listeners can find you, where they can find your podcast. How can we find you?

Timmy Bauer: Sure. So I wasn't able to get, it was too expensive. So I got, but that is the name of the podcast. Or, if you go into your podcast player and just type in The Literacy Advocate or on Twitter, I tweet a lot. My Twitter is just my name, Timmy Bauer, B-A-U-E-R, like Jack Bauer. So yeah, that's the easiest way I would say.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: Awesome. And Timmy, I really appreciate you coming on the show. I had such a blast. It was so much fun talking with you and I appreciate your time.

Timmy Bauer: Yeah. I forgot to say that as an author, if you're interested in my kid's books, the easiest way would be literally to just Google my name, Timmy Bauer, and all my kid's books will pop up. And I'm about to start offering them all for free digitally, so if that sounds interesting, I haven't rolled this out yet, but I'm about to just start a newsletter where it's like, "Hey, just get all my kid's books for free in your inbox. And you decide if you want to own them physically."

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: I love it. What a fantastic idea.

Timmy Bauer: Yeah. I think I'll make some sales out of it, by giving somebody something for free, which is really cool.

Dr. Nathan Lang-Raad: That's so awesome. Hey Timmy, thanks again for being a part.

Timmy Bauer: Thank you so much for having me.

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